42 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

title says it all, but........

*Sigh*


WOULD YOU STOP BEING LAZY WITH WEAPON SCALING AND MODELS?

The left arm of the Kit Fox Prime houses an ER Large Laser (4 tons) and a Small Pulse Laser (1 ton), yet both use the same exact model, without any distinction in size and focal lense?

And I fear to see if I slap a pair of PPCs on that arm...will they be itty bitty pellet gun sized pea shooters like on my Firestarters?


seriously, if you can't figure out balance, matchmaking and community warfare, can you at least do justice to Alex's artwork and make my "Stompy Robot TDM" LOOK PRETTY?!?!?!?

[Joseph Mallan]

The artist of Project Phoenix, Chris Lewis had a set of Stock art that was his PPCs, ACs et al. So When he put an PPC on a Mech it was Always a PPC! Not a medium laser.sized PPC.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 May 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

The artist of Project Phoenix, Chris Lewis had a set of Stock art that was his PPCs, ACs et al. So When he put an PPC on a Mech it was Always a PPC! Not a medium laser.sized PPC.

got any links, would love to see it. (Though TBH, I really have mixed feelings for much of that TRO. Though I'm one of the few who liked the Marauder and LOVED the Thunderbolt. HATED his Griffin, Shadowhawk and Wolverine, though.)

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 May 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

got any links, would love to see it. (Though TBH, I really have mixed feelings for much of that TRO. Though I'm one of the few who liked the Marauder and LOVED the Thunderbolt. HATED his Griffin, Shadowhawk and Wolverine, though.)

I don't have that link any more... Partially cause the link I had was before TRO PP was released. I wasn't a fan of the Marauder (MAraider II and IIC I Love Love Loved) Shadow Hawk we joked that it was Boba Fett.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 May 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

I don't have that link any more... Partially cause the link I had was before TRO PP was released. I wasn't a fan of the Marauder (MAraider II and IIC I Love Love Loved) Shadow Hawk we joked that it was Boba Fett.

ah. sad panda.

[SkkyHigh]

Geez I thought I was lazy, but the devs have always taken that cake.

[Trauglodyte]

Not that I agree with it, but I will defend them here by using a slight case of realism. Essentially what you're seeing in a laser model is a grouping of lenses and nothing more. The power generation of the laser is a reaction from within the fusion engine of the mech. So, in reality, you don't need anything to be different in terms of size.

As for the ACs and PPCs...

[Jin Ma]

your going to have to take this up with Alex Iglesis the weapon sizes are determined by concept art. and since there is no way even for the concept artist to know how big a model comes out from the concept art, there doesn't seem any way for him to know exactly what scale the actual weapon models will come out to be.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 May 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

WOULD YOU STOP BEING LAZY WITH WEAPON SCALING AND MODELS?

Good luck with that one. MVP baby.

[Bishop Steiner]

Jin Ma, on 18 May 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

your going to have to take this up with Alex Iglesis the weapon sizes are determined by concept art. and since there is no way even for the concept artist to know how big a model comes out from the concept art, there doesn't seem any way for him to know exactly what scale the actual weapon models will come out to be.

actually, they aren't.

Trauglodyte, on 18 May 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Not that I agree with it, but I will defend them here by using a slight case of realism. Essentially what you're seeing in a laser model is a grouping of lenses and nothing more. The power generation of the laser is a reaction from within the fusion engine of the mech. So, in reality, you don't need anything to be different in terms of size.

As for the ACs and PPCs...

and the capacitors for storing the pulse before firing? and even if it's just a series of lenses, as you claim, 4 tons of lenses take up more space than 1 ton.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 May 2014 - 07:42 AM.

[FupDup]

It's a carryover from the TRO art.





They did have different shape, but their overall size was basically the same. Note that I'm not saying I like it this way, I'm just saying that there's a precedent. At the very least I would like a blue or purple lens for the ERLL and a green or yellow one for the ERSL.

[Roland]

Laser lens sizes wouldn't really change with different power lasers.

[Ultimax]

Trauglodyte, on 18 May 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Not that I agree with it, but I will defend them here by using a slight case of realism. Essentially what you're seeing in a laser model is a grouping of lenses and nothing more. The power generation of the laser is a reaction from within the fusion engine of the mech. So, in reality, you don't need anything to be different in terms of size.

As for the ACs and PPCs...

While I applaud your effort, I think 4 extra tons of just lenses all fitting into that same size barrel is probably pushing it.

[Odins Fist]

A PPC or a Ballistic weapon should be the same size regardless of what Mech it is mounted on, or it should do less damage and less range, or it shouldn't be allowed to be mounted if it breaks the laws of physics, and yes i'm talking about light Mechs.

Edited by Odins Fist, 18 May 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[Jin Ma]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

actually, they aren't.


and the capacitors for storing the pulse before firing? and even if it's just a series of lenses, as you claim, 4 tons of lenses take up more space than 1 ton.

Barrel sizes have always been determined by concept art. Examples; Awesome, Raven, actually all mechs. only exceptions are custom visuals to show weapon switch-ins(because nobody does concept for those, and they are just sized by the modlers) and also Kitfox oddly enough (maybe they are reserving the longer barrel art for larger ballistic weapons) there maybe a couple others, but otherwise all stock barrel sizes are determined by the concept art.

and since concept art is loosely based on TRO art, barrel sizes are also loosely determined by their original TRO art. (as someone above me posted)
so if you cant convince alex to size the weapons "correctly" maybe take it up with Battletech?

And while i agree that the same weapons varying hugely among different weight classes doesn't make sense from a realism point of view.
Scaling the weapons exactly the same isn't realistic from a programing/game design/modeling i.e general game production point of view.

And trust me i am on the dev's case as much as the next guy with things that they can achieve, and are just too lazy to do (like scaling mechs right for gods sakes). But asking them to scale the weapons exactly the same while still giving us hardpoint customizations is just too much.

Edited by Jin Ma, 18 May 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[crossflip]

Roland, on 18 May 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Laser lens sizes wouldn't really change with different power lasers.

Different lasers have different ranges. If the small lasers and large lasers had the same lens sizes as the medium lasers then their effective range would be around 270m and their intensity would vary hugely. For lasers with different lenses I'd have to conclude that either lens number or size needs to vary.

[Lostdragon]

Just imagine that the "guts" of the lasers are housed in the forearm. Since you can't see inside it you can pretend that the guts of the LL take up 4/5 of the room and the SPL takes up the remainder.

[FupDup]

For lasers, this is how they currently look all the time...




This is a crappy mock-up of how I would like my 2 ER Larges and 1 Medium to look...

[Blood Rose]

SkkyHigh, on 18 May 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Geez I thought I was lazy, but the devs have always taken that cake.

Nope, their too lazy to get up and claim it.

I agree wholly with Bishop Steiner on this.
I also say that the CPLT-K2 PPC barrels should be returned to their original dimensions, unless the devs are willing to give us light PPC's.

[627]

if they could at least give those lenses another color... why are all lasers green? Even the tag? I mean, even the flamer got it's own model ?!

For the scaling of ACs and PPCs, you _could_ explain this with lore and different manufacturers. I have no problem with different sizes on different mechs. IF those scale fits to the mech and it looks good overall (rule of cool).

that's not the case with some mechs, though